{"id":20730,"date":"2012-08-26T22:17:46","date_gmt":"2012-08-27T02:17:46","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/horizonsmagazine.com\/blog\/?p=20730"},"modified":"2012-08-27T01:01:30","modified_gmt":"2012-08-27T05:01:30","slug":"my-interview-with-larry-dossey-md-author-of-the-book-healing-words","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/horizonsmagazine.com\/blog\/my-interview-with-larry-dossey-md-author-of-the-book-healing-words\/","title":{"rendered":"Jeffrey Austin Smith’s interview with Larry Dossey, MD, author of the book “Healing Words”"},"content":{"rendered":"
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Jeffrey Austin Smith<\/p><\/div>\n

My friend Jeffrey Smith<\/a> is doing research for a book which involves the subject of prayer and how to use it. After seeing Dr Dossey on Oprah “Super Sunday”, Jeffrey contacted him about his book “Healing Words” and this is what he emailed \u00a0back.<\/p>\n

An interview with Larry Dossey, MD<\/p>\n

Dr. Dossey, what is spirituality?<\/span><\/p>\n

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Dr. Larry Dossey http:\/\/www.dosseydossey.com<\/p><\/div>\n

For me, it’s simply a sense of connectedness with a higher power \u2014 a reality beyond the self or ego. \u00a0People have different terms for this, such as God, Goddess, Allah, the Tao, Universe, and so on. I favor \u201cThe Absolute,\u201d because this term is refreshingly free from any particular religious connotation. \u00a0Spirituality is not the same as religion, which involves specific behaviors, rituals, and beliefs, usually among a community of like-minded believers. \u00a0People can be spiritual without being religious, and vice versa, or they can be both or neither.<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

You say medicine is becoming re-spiritualized. What’s the evidence?<\/span><\/p>\n

In 1993, only 3 medical schools in the United States (out of a total of 125) had courses that explored the role of spirituality in health. Now, around 90 have such. Research in this area is booming. Approximately 1,200 studies show that people who follow a spiritual path in their life live, on average, seven to thirteen years longer than people who do not follow a spiritual path, and they have a lower incidence of all major diseases. \u00a0Several controlled experiments suggest that prayer for another person can influence that person’s health, even when they are unaware it is being offered.<\/p>\n

All medical students in the U.S. are now required to know how to take a spiritual history from a patient before being granted a degree from an M.D.-granting school. \u00a0In order to be accredited, hospitals and clinics are required to have mechanisms in place whereby they can assess the spiritual needs of all patients. \u00a0Surveys show that the most frequently used \u201calternative therapy\u201d in the U. S. is prayer.<\/p>\n

This represents a Renaissance in the spirituality-and-health field. It is taking place not because Americans are obsessed with religion, but because of the growing scientific evidence that spirituality can be important for our health.<\/p>\n

In your experience, how does healing seem to take place through the assistance of prayer; how does prayer work in this process?<\/span><\/p>\n

True believers say “God does it” and let it go at that. But scientists want to know how it actually works, of course. \u00a0Although controlled studies show that prayer is associated with healing, the mechanism is not known. \u00a0Many scholars are offering hypotheses, however, about how prayer and healing might work at a distance.<\/p>\n

Most of these proposals suggest new ways of thinking about the nature of consciousness, space, and time. They suggest that consciousness is a process that extends beyond the brain and body and that it is independent of space and time. In other words, consciousness appears to be infinite, not restricted to the brain, body or to the present moment. Scientists have a word for such a process: nonlocal. Therefore we\u2019re talking these days about nonlocal mind, which may operate at a distance, perhaps through prayer.<\/p>\n

Can you please talk about the role of the intention and influence of the healer in the healing process?<\/span><\/p>\n

Most healers emphasize intentions. They intend, wish, desire, or pray that a certain result take place. Even if they ask for something nonspecific, as in “Thy will be done,” they generally have some outcome in mind. \u00a0The key question \u2014 unanswerable by science, in my opinion \u2014 is whether or not healing is a direct result of the healers\u2019 intentions, or whether a transcendent entity (God, Goddess, Allah, etc.) is involved in the loop. No one knows how to answer this question, because we have no \u201cGod meters\u201d to measure the Absolute. \u00a0Most healers say they are simply a channel for a higher power. Most say the effect of prayer originates not in them, but outside of them.<\/p>\n

Does the effectiveness of prayer depend on whether or not individuals have confidence in the process?<\/span><\/p>\n

Confidence in the process helps promote a positive outcome, but is not crucial to the effects of prayer. We know this because of two reasons. \u00a0First, the major studies in prayer are double blind, which means that the recipient does not know for sure that he or she is actually being prayed for. \u00a0Second, many studies in healing prayer have been done on animals, plants, and microbes. Presumably they don’t have confidence in the procedure or even know that it is happening, yet they respond.<\/p>\n

\u2014 or whether they have religious or spiritual faith<\/span><\/p>\n

Studies suggest that the prayers of perhaps any religion are effective. There is no evidence that any particular faith enjoys a greater effect than any other. Even non-theistic prayer is effective, as in certain types of Buddhist prayer (Buddhism is not a theistic religion).<\/p>\n

What relationship do you see between the effectiveness of prayer and chronic diseases?<\/span><\/p>\n

Case histories are on record showing that prayer is involved in the healing of a huge variety of diseases, both acute and chronic. However, the best scientific studies have examined the effects of prayer on heart disease, advanced AIDS, and infertility, with positive findings in all these conditions.<\/p>\n

In my opinion, if prayer can affect serious diseases such as advanced AIDS, no disease is beyond responding to prayer. However, prayer-and-healing research is in its infancy and needs to be extended to a greater variety of illnesses, acute as well as chronic.<\/p>\n

How strong is the science relating prayer to health, and what particular studies do you think valuable?<\/span><\/p>\n

Although this field is immature, many promising studies have been done. These are double-blind, controlled, prospective experiments that have the qualities of excellent scientific research. Examples are those by Dr. Elisabeth Targ (advanced AIDS), Dr. William Harris (heart attack), Dr. Mitchell Krucoff (heart disease), and Dr. Kwang Cha (infertility). Dr. Wayne Jonas, formerly director of the NIH\u2019s National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, recently reviewed this field and found 80 controlled studies in healing. One-half to two thirds of these show statistically significant results.<\/p>\n

But in addition to controlled studies, there are thousands of published cases of so-called spontaneous remissions that often take place in the context of religious faith, and often appear to be related to prayer. The book Spontaneous Remission by Hirshberg and O\u2019Regan cites over 3,000 such cases worldwide. These are often dismissed as anecdotes, but I believe it is foolish to ignore them.<\/p>\n

Can you please describe the difference and effectiveness in both directed and non-directed prayer? Does the method one chooses depend on the personality or temperament of the individual?<\/span><\/p>\n

Directed prayer asks for a specific outcome. Non-directed prayer takes the “Thy will be done” or “May the best thing happen” approach. The bottom line is that both methods work. \u00a0Different people feel more connected with one method than the other; they should choose the technique that feels most authentic and genuine to them personally. \u00a0There is no “one right way,” no formula, for prayer and healing. I adore this finding; it makes prayer a highly individual, personal endeavor.<\/p>\n

Can you please briefly describe the nonlocal model of body\/mind\/spirit?<\/span><\/p>\n

“Nonlocal” is simply a fancy word for “infinite.” It refers to a consciousness that is unlimited in space and time. In a nutshell, this means that consciousness is eternal, immortal, infinite, and unitary, as I\u2019ve explained in a series of books on the subject. \u00a0Therefore the evidence for \u201cnonlocal consciousness\u201d is really evidence for what we have traditionally called \u201cthe soul.\u201d<\/p>\n

How do you think that prayer can be integrated with standard medical practice, as well as the use of other more nontraditional or alternative practices?<\/span><\/p>\n

Prayer can be integrated with any other medical therapy in my judgment \u2014 surgery, drugs, or alternatives techniques. Indeed, this is happening all over the U. S., and reflects the way prayer has traditionally been used \u2014 as a complement to physical interventions of all sorts.<\/p>\n

We should not feel compelled to make either\/or choices between spiritually and physically based therapies. Let\u2019s be pragmatic and simply use what works. Usually many approaches have value in any situation. I consider them all a blessing.<\/p>\n

Faith often sustains people when their prayers go unanswered, but others can become bitter and angry. Any thoughts about this?<\/span><\/p>\n

We can become bitter and angry when the world does not march to our tune. \u00a0However, we need to remember that prayer ultimately is not about getting something \u2014 neither good health, winning the lottery, finding the perfect life partner, a parking space, and so on. \u00a0Prayer is about connecting with the Absolute or the Divine, however named. We need to avoid putting our personal trip or agenda on the universe through prayer. If we can do so, prayer won’t disappoint.<\/p>\n

What are the implications of our ability to transcend time and space for the existence of the soul?<\/span><\/p>\n

Throughout history, the soul has been considered timeless, limitless, immortal. \u00a0Studies in prayer reveal that we possess the ability to reach out infinitely in space and time. Prayer studies therefore point like an arrow to the existence of a soul-like quality in everyone. \u00a0Prayer affirms the existence of soul, and this is one of its greatest gifts to human welfare.<\/p>\n

The fear of death, extermination, and annihilation is perhaps the greatest \u201cdisease\u201d that has ever afflicted humans. It has caused more suffering than all the physical diseases combined. Nonlocal or infinite mind is the Great Cure for this \u201cdisease,\u201d because it suggests that some part of who we are is infinite in time, and survives bodily death.<\/p>\n

Can science and religion be reconciled as partners?<\/span><\/p>\n

By taking seriously the evidence for distant healing and prayer, religion and science can come closer together. They can harmonize but not homogenize. \u00a0At some level, science and religion should be different, because they address different domains. But the science behind prayer and healing shows that there is huge room for accommodation on both sides.<\/p>\n

Healing experiments show that love and compassion are central to studies on prayer. These factors have always been valued by the world’s great religions. This a key point of contact between science, religion, and spirituality \u2014 but also a key difference, because materialistic science has no place for issues such as meaning, purpose, or values. For example, science can tell us how to lower our cholesterol, but it cannot tell us whether it is good to do so. Science is also silent on morals and values. This information must come from another source, not science. \u00a0So science and spirituality can connect with each other, but they are not identical. \u00a0Above all, we do not want to hold spirituality, religion and prayer hostage to science. But let\u2019s honor the points of contact where we can.<\/p>\n

What relationship do you see between the effects of prayer and heart-centered energy work such as Reiki, or in using the heart to beam or focus energy to self or others?<\/span><\/p>\n

I have for a long time asked practitioners of Reiki and Therapeutic Touch whether they believe their work is related to prayer. They all say yes. \u00a0The connecting links between these therapies and prayer are love, empathy, compassion, and caring \u2014 and a belief that consciousness, through loving intentions, can bring about positive changes in the world.<\/p>\n

As a follow-up to that question, what is the connection between energy and love?<\/span><\/p>\n

I consider “energy” to be a weak metaphor for distant healing. “Energy,” as defined in modern science, is a local effect. That is, it diminishes in strength with increasing distance, and it cannot act outside the present moment. All the known forms of energy can be measured. Healing intention and prayer are not limited by time and space. No one has ever measured any known form of energy associated with distant prayer and intention. They don\u2019t weaken with increasing separation between the healer and the healee. For example, prayer appears to be as effective from the other side of the world as at the bedside. So “energy” is not too helpful in understanding remote healing and prayer.<\/p>\n

However, healers needed metaphors and images to help them in their work, and “energy” seems to have stuck. But when we try to represent healing to the scientific world, the term “energy” healing gets in the way. I challenge all healers to find better images and metaphors \u2014 or if they use the term “energy,” they should qualify that it is only a metaphor and not fact.<\/p>\n

“Energy” can, however, help explain the local effects of the healing process, such as what happens in the healer’s body and perhaps in the body of the recipient. It cannot, however, explain what happens in the “nonlocal gap” \u2014 the distance separating healer and healee. \u201cEnergy\u201d doesn\u2019t explain how healing \u201cgets\u201d from the healer to the healee. My belief, following the nonlocal way of thinking, is that healing does not \u201cgo\u201d anywhere, it does not \u201cget\u201d from point A to point B; it\u2019s already there; it does not travel. That\u2019s one of the meanings of \u201cnonlocal,\u201d and \u201cnonlocal healing.\u201d<\/p>\n

Love? We cannot understand either local or nonlocal healing without making a place for love. Compassion, caring, and love are the fire of healing. Without them, \u201chealing\u201d is an oxymoron, a contradiction in terms.<\/p>\n

People sometimes say they \u201cfeel\u201d the prayers of others on their behalf. What about this?<\/span><\/p>\n

People indeed often feel the prayers, concerns, intentions, and love of others, even at a distance. Love and empathy have the power to link people across great distances. \u00a0If emotionally connected, people can even share physical symptoms at a distance \u2014 the so-called “telesomatic” phenomena I’ve written about. In one example, a loving mother was writing a letter to her beloved daughter, who had just gone away to college. She had to stop writing when a burning sensation occurred in one finger \u2014 at the same time, it turned out, that her daughter, hundreds of miles away, seriously burned the same finger in a chemistry experiment. There are hundreds of similar examples on record attesting to the uniting power of love and emotional closeness.<\/p>\n

Are you interested in so-called miracle cures?<\/span><\/p>\n

Miracles are very important. They have always fascinated me. They suggest that no matter how serious an illness may be, healing is always possible. \u00a0Miracles are almost certainly more frequent than we think. Most of them don\u2019t\u2019 get reported. In the best book on the subject, Spontaneous Remission, more than 3,000 have been collected, from all major diseases.<\/p>\n

Miracles are also important for our humility, because they remind us that our rational, materialistic science is incomplete, and that there will probably always be phenomena we cannot explain. As someone who adores mystery, I like that.<\/p>\n

What part did your own health problems play in the evolution of your thinking about healing?<\/span><\/p>\n

Healers have always been empowered and made wiser through personal experiences of illness \u2014 the tradition of the “wounded healer.” \u00a0My own physical problems \u2014 severe classical migraine headache, beginning in childhood and persisting through my medical training \u2014 opened me up first to mind-body interventions such as imagery, visualization, relaxation, and meditation. I had almost complete resolution of my problem after biofeedback therapy, which utilizes these therapies. From there it was a short hop to my interest in nonlocal healing interventions such as remote healing and prayer.<\/p>\n

What contributions did the following make to your world view:<\/span><\/p>\n

\u2014 medical education?<\/span><\/p>\n

My medical education affirmed the local, materialistic, physical view of the universe I had learned in college. It made me a conventional doctor and provided me with essential skills. I\u2019m grateful for that, even though it was incomplete.<\/p>\n

\u2014 experience in Vietnam?<\/span><\/p>\n

Vietnam filled me with humility and brought me face to face with my own vulnerability and mortality. It shook me up and opened doors for exploring my own spirituality. It gave me a profound understanding of what warriorship is about, which has been of immense value in my life. Vietnam provided insights into the nature of war and aggression. Going to war as a battalion surgeon was a maturing process for me on many levels, including the spiritual. You may find this difficult to believe; beforehand, so did I.<\/p>\n

\u2014 the practice of medicine?<\/span><\/p>\n

The daily encounter with life and death and healing is one of the greatest spiritual paths humans have ever known. My former experiences as an internist continue to fill me with awe and gratitude, although I have left my practice to pursue other things.<\/p>\n

The practice of medicine is a doorway to the infinite. I’m grateful that somehow I stumbled into the healing professions and became a doctor.<\/p>\n

What new questions are you asking?<\/span><\/p>\n

I\u2019m allowing the questions to find me (and hopefully a few answers as well). I continue to explore the mysteries of consciousness and healing, and our relationship with the infinite. These questions will occupy me for the rest of my days. Prayer and healing will exhaust me before I exhaust them. I’m having fun, the time of my life.<\/p>\n

What gives you hope, not only for the power of invisible elements such as prayer, but also for the world in general?<\/span><\/p>\n

Einstein said that the most important question is, \u201cIs the universe friendly?\u201d I give a yes answer to that.<\/p>\n

I’m an optimist. Look at it this way. We are already nonlocal creatures \u2014 infinite and immortal. That is our original equipment, our inheritance, our legacy, our birthright. Immortality comes with the package, factory-installed: not a bad consolation prize. Who can’t be optimistic with this awareness?<\/p>\n

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